Template talk:Fascism sidebar
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IMO the fascism template should only have major, undoubtedly fascist movements in it; otherwise it's just going to get too big and too controversial. I have modified it thusly. - Stlemur 13:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)C mon (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Noting the recent string of modifications: as the template affects a large number of articles, significant changes to it should be discussed in this talk page before implementation. - Stlemur 22:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Anyone mind if I trim down items redundant with the Nazism template? - Stlemur 20:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
- Go right ahead. I was thinking of doing that myself. - DNewhall
Draft:
| This article is part of the Fascism series.  This series is linked to the Politics and elections series |
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Varieties and derivatives of fascism Fascism in history Relevant lists Related subjects |
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I'm not entirely crazy about it still...I think the template has a lot of trivia in it (Italian Social Republic?). - Stlemur 14:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
- I made some mostly superficial changes. I think we should leave the Italian Social Republic in since I can't really think of any big reasons to take it out. However, I know there's a debate about the Greek fascism page but shouldn't we still leave that in until some concensus occurs reagarding it? - DNewhall
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- It definitely shouldn't be on the list twice, though. - Stlemur 17:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
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- Some of the links were getting a bit obscure, and one was on the template twice. Can we keep to the core topics?--Cberlet 04:16, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Nazism and socialism - discuss and vote on which page text should appear
Discussions of the relationship between Fascism and socialism and Nazism and socialism keep appearing on multiple pages. On what page does the section on Nazism and socialism belong?
Fascism and ideology---Nazism in relation to other concepts---Fascism and socialism---Nazism and socialism
Please discuss and vote on this dispute at this talk page]. Thanks. --Cberlet 15:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Horizontal template
Looking at Fascism and Freedom Movement (a particularly bad example), I'm wondering if the template should maybe be made horizontal and put at the bottom of pages it appears on. --Stlemur 13:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- Might work better. Are their other similar horizontal templates?--Cberlet 13:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Restructuring template
I think we can do away with the "Fascist political parties and movements" section and just move "List of fascist movements by country" to the "Relevent lists" section and "Fascism as an international phenomenon" can go in "Related subjects". - DNewhall
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- National Bolsehvism and National Anarchism are called fascistic by a number of published scholars. Why the deletion? I know they claim they oppose fascism--but that does not sweep aside the work of scholars.--Cberlet 14:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with Cberlet. National bolshevism has a history entangled with pre-WWII fascism, it uses fascist imagery, it often embraces fascistic methods and goals (racism, violence as a political tool, Fuehrerprinzip...) --Stlemur 15:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing National Bolshevism was a mistake, however removing National Anarchism was not. The third sentence of the National Anarchism article states "National Anarchists completely reject Fascism as being Statist". - DNewhall
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- The self-claim should be noted on the page. That some scholars call National Anarchists fascistic cannot simply be dismissed. I can be persuaded, but many fascist groups claim to not be fascist or even claim to be anti-fascist. Hardly persuasive.--Cberlet 17:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, who're these scholars that call National Anarchists fascist? - DNewhall
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[edit] Legionarism
Iron Guard is the second name of the Legionary Movement a.k.a. Legion of Saint Michael the Archangel, therefore it cannot be considered the name of the doctrine. In "Tara si Exilul" newspaper (official paper of the Iron Guard in exile), Horia Sima wrote the article "Sase decade de legionarism" ("Six decades of legionarism"). The article can be found here. Other referrences to "legionarism" can be found in this important political magazine, in this article and on the official page of the Romanian Chamber of Deputies, here ("legionarism" is used here by a well-known Romanian historian). But I think that next time you should check for yourself before reverting the edits. Nobody should waste time collecting things that you can easily find searching the web.--Eres 03:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, the Legion of the Archangel Michael later changed its name to the Iron Guard. When scholars refer to them they either use one name or the other (For example, Griffiths and Griffin use the Iron Guard, Paxton and Passmore use the Legion of the Archangel Michael). In English literature on fascism there is none, or very little, scholarly work that uses the term "Legionarism"; it's always one name or the other. Wikipedia takes the same approach. We have an article Iron Guard and Legion of the Archangel Michael and Legionarism both redirect to it since that is the term Wikipedia editors have chosen to prefer as the name (since scholars almost arbitrarily prefer one name or the other). If the Wikipedia consensus it to use Iron Guard than that should be the name in the template. - DNewhall 17:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Then Falangism should be modified to The Falange. Legionarism is the doctrine of The Ledoinary Movement and I have clearly supported my point of view with the informations presented. The article shod be named Iron Guard, but the doctrine should be called "Legionarism". Just like falangism and la falange...--Eres 13:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps. However, Falangism is commonly used as a descriptive term for a few movements whereas Legionarism is only used in regards to the Iron Guard and seems to be used very, very rarely if at all. It would make sense to make it Legionarism except that, unlike Falangism, the term is almost never used (if at all) by scholars. - DNewhall 18:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
What scholars? Romanian political science scholars use "legionarism" in their works. But, anyway, wikipedists don't care about science, they only care about their own opinion.--Eres 20:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- You might be right about Romanian political scientists using the term, however, this is the English Wikipedia so we stick with the terms used in English literature. About what Wikipedia editors care about we have a policy on assuming good faith which we all try to abide by because if "wikipedists don't care about science, they only care about their own opinion" as you say then you, as a Wikipedist are simply editing this page to explicitly insert your point of view. - DNewhall 05:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Of course I am.--Eres 23:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Contested references
Ecofascism
Islamofascism
Left-wing fascism
These are highly contested issues, do they belong on a tmeplate at all?--Cberlet 14:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
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- I disagree. The term and concept are not well-established in scholarship. Hot button political issue. The ideas are covered on Neofascism and religion and Clerical fascism, not on Islamofascism.--Cberlet (talk) 04:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Estado Novo not true fascism
Estado Novo in Portugal or Brazil are not generally characterized by scholars as fascist. They share some common elements and certainly were inspired in part by aspects of fascism but even parts of the New Deal had inspiration from fascist policies. There is a "taxonomical” difficulty in characterizing it as fascism; it is not fascism but at most a “para-fascism”. It is true of both Brazil and Portugal. They are not quite fascist, hence I am removing them from the template. Mamalujo 18:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] style change
The template is long and narrow, so I propose that we move multiple links into the same line. Yahel Guhan 23:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Small or large
I don't agree with the last edits of C mon on the template and I, as I oppose them, I observe that there is no consensus on them. I think it is fairly more practical to have templates without "show" buttons. They are more easily manageable. --Checco (talk) 09:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. I don't think the template was too big and it is not always obvious what will be under the various categories. I think the previous organization was better.Mamalujo (talk) 16:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I created a centralized place for discussion about the show/hide-issue here. I invite every one to participate. C mon (talk) 18:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] New Template lay out
Vision Thing recently revert user:Gennarous's edits here. I agree that such a major and controversial change should be discussed. While there are parts of the edit I did not like, namely that a lot of links were lost, I really liked the lay out with the fasces and the pictures of the fascist leader. So I think we should work on a version with the "new" lay out and the "old" links. C mon (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- I will apply new layout during next week in nobody beats me to it. -- Vision Thing -- 17:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The eariler one had plenty of group content. If it didn't have enought why not have more? I think the current one needs change. It's terribly dull. Bobisbob (talk) 01:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Varieties and prominent figures
Does consensus exists about varieties and prominent figures in fascism? -- Vision Thing -- 13:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, I don't think there is consensus on this matter as yet. We need more discussion. The changes on the Fascism page have been substantial, and there has been no time for actual substantive editorial discussions. We need to agree on that page first before agreeing on varieties and prominent figures in fascism for the template.--Cberlet (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Colour of the template
The socialism template looks nice. It has white main header text over a red background with red header text below. I think we should do a similar theme for the fascism template but with a different colour. The current colour blue as a political colour is associated with conservatism and not fascism. The two colours most associated with fascism are black and brown. Should we redecorate the fascism template with that in mind? Ecto (talk) 23:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
- I changed the colour of Template:Fascism and Template:Fascism sidebar to black. I think it looks good and it fits in with the look of Portal:Fascism. Template: Anarchism sidebar and Template:Anarchism don't use anarchism's political colour (black) because it doesn't use any colour. If the anarchism templates undergo a redesign and we decide to go with black for those we can change the fascism templates to brown (saddle brown would look best), but black is fascism's main political colour, and I think both anarchism and fascism have just as much claim to it, so it wouldn't be that terrible for them to look the same. At any rate I think we should standardize the look of all the political ideology templates so each is colour-coded by its political colour, so Template:Socialism and Template:Communism would share a colour as well. Ecto (talk) 21:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- Black unfortunately makes the links rather hard to read, I'm afraid. TallNapoleon (talk) 03:15, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
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- Do you mean the white headers against the black background are hard to read? I wouldn't think so because white and black are the highest contrast possible, and I've read a few web design books which say that white text on a black background is supposed to be easier to read on a computer screen than the other way around. The design might not work with such small header background areas if the edges of the letters come too close to the white spaces around the headers, though. I run my monitor at a low resolution so I wouldn't normally see that problem but I'll check the template in higher resolutions. Do you think brown would look better? Ecto (talk) 11:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
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- Yes I think I see what you mean now. In higher resolutions you kind of get a dizzy effect, especially with all the sections collapsed. Do you think it's a big enough deal to change the colour? Ecto (talk) 11:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- I was specifically referring to the show/hide links, which are nearly invisible. If their color could be changed that would be excellent. TallNapoleon (talk) 07:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- Oh okay. I should have guessed that. I already stumbled on a way to make the show/hide links white using the "subnavbox" feature that I'll implement in the next version of the template. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to make them change colour once visited (a light grey would be nice) but I don't think that's such a big deal. Ecto (talk) 12:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- I was specifically referring to the show/hide links, which are nearly invisible. If their color could be changed that would be excellent. TallNapoleon (talk) 07:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
- Yes I think I see what you mean now. In higher resolutions you kind of get a dizzy effect, especially with all the sections collapsed. Do you think it's a big enough deal to change the colour? Ecto (talk) 11:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
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- I've just stumbled upon this, and I have to say that the black-banner effect doesn't look at all sensible; it's ugly, distracting and makes the links hard to read (as people have already identified above). Can we change it so that just the header "Fascism" is black, and not all the section headers? Oli Filth(talk|contribs) 18:13, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Portraits needed
The people section needs portraits for the following fascists:
If a portrait becomes available on Wikipedia or the Commons please put it into the template. The name, link, and format code is ready to go. All you have to do is put in the image code (formatting it like the others) and delete the extra comment tags that are hiding the unfinished entry. Ecto (talk) 21:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Notable Persons
It seems we've got a lot of people on the sidebar, but not all of them are entirely notable - as in, the most significant figures in Fascism. These are the people I'd suggest we keep on the persons list; each figure is supposed to represent its nation:
- Benito Mussolini (Italy)
- Adolf Hitler (Germany)
- José Antonio Primo de Rivera (Spain)
- Corneliu Zelea Codreanu (Romania)
- Plinio Salgado (Brazil)
- Leon Degrelle (Belgium)
- Oswald Mosley (Great Britain)
- Ante Pavelic (Croatia)
- Ikki Kita (Japan)
Hope to hear suggestions! --UNSC Trooper (talk) 17:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- I agree that this change should happen, but I think it should be part of a larger overhaul described below. Ecto (talk) 23:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
[edit] A plan for the development of the fascism templates
1. We should give Template:Fascism (the footer) collapsible groups. There's already a prototype template we could use as a basis for doing so on Template talk:Fascism but it needs some work.
2. We should pare down the content of Template:Fascism and Template:Fascism sidebar to only the most important articles (for example, the People/Persons sections should be changed to what UNSC Trooper suggested above). Also we should correlate the content of Template:Fascism and Template:Fascism sidebar so they have identical, streamlined content.
3. We should make a new set of more focused templates by splitting off each section from Template:Fascism and Template:Fascism sidebar into separate templates. These new templates should retain all less important articles removed from the main templates. There's already a set of prototype templates we could use as a basis for this set on Template talk:Fascism but they need some work.
4. We should make something like Template:Italian Fascism to parallel Template:Nazism, since Italian Fascism was pretty important and really requires its own template distinct from generic fascism. This template should only include articles directly related to Italian Fascism.
The end result of this plan would be a set of templates that looks something like this:
Generic fascism:
Variants of fascism:
- Template:Nazism/Template:Nazism sidebar
- Template:Italian Fascism/Template:Italian Fascism sidebar
- Template:Swedish nationalism and fascism
- Template:Dutch fascism
Neo-Fascism/Neo-Nazism:
Other:
Does this sound like a good plan? Ecto (talk) 23:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
